Thursday, October 9, 2014

Male Entitlement is Deadly


So yesterday I made a very funny post about all the movies that treat women as rewards that men deserve for doing a thing or just existing. I didn't feel like going on about the results of this oft repeated narrative. But I actually don't have to. Because you can see the results for yourself.

"Man Allegedly Shot Woman Dead After She Refused To Give Him Her Number"

The entire story is horrifying. This man approached her AT AN EVENT FOLLOWING A FUNERAL FOR A FAMILY MEMBER. He harassed her until 2am. This is the result. Women are harmed and killed all the time because men are taught that they are entitled to women.


Tribalmind said...

There are a lot of issues here, but it is true that the male entitlement attitude is dangerous, combine it with limited restrictions on weapons and it becomes deadly. The issue is the only way we can really fix this is if we educate all children correctly (everyone is a person not an object style). The problem with that is the previous generation will just override the teaching to some degree because parents often train their kids simply by how they act themselves. These are extreem cases and there are many males that are not like this so you must be careful of sample bias but still it shouldn't happpen

Lindsey Weedston said...

This happens way too often, though, to the point that it's clearly a social pattern and not just isolated incidents occurring in a vacuum. I'm not too concerned with sample bias on this blog, either. It's not a psychological journal. But I 100% agree with you that we need to focus on educating children.

Tribalmind said...

Not isolated is true but when I state sample bias I referance more that we only hear about the bad cases so over time it feels like that is all that is happening. Afterall there is no articles about the guy who met a girl, asked her out, got turned down and moved on. To be honest I'm in Australia so I may be in a slightly different demographic standard but I do not hear of this happening much at all. The risk of keeping to only your own circles can sometimes mean you get only reinforcing data because you all agree with each other. As an example have a look at a right wing site in referance to the black shooting recently, they are convinced that the black community is out to kill all whites because all they see are the articles about a black killing a white, never any of the stories about a white killing a black or a white killing a white so they have come to believe that all blacks want to kill them. Basically I'm just saying that you have to make sure you aren't overstating issues because they are all you see, again as you say it's not in a vacuum. Sorry for rant there just I worry that things go overboard if not checked occasionally

Lindsey Weedston said...

In my experience, cases where men take no for an answer without further pestering, weirdness, and/or hostility are rare. It may not usually end up with the woman dead, but I do hear about a case like this where it ended in extreme violence about once a week. Even if it's not the norm, the prevalence is higher than you might realize. This isn't a case of confirmation bias. Also, I'm not at all concerned about overstating these issues. If anything, it would counter all the under-stating that's done about male violence against women.

Lastly, I'm wary of referring to black people as "blacks" or "a black." It's dehumanizing.

Tribalmind said...

I appogise on the use of black for terminology I was just feeling a little lazy and didnt want to type african american (is that even the correct term now? not sure, don't keep up with american politics that well). You may note I also refer to whites as whites, if I'm dehumanising one then I'm doing it to both. On the note of your comment though, if it was common that men could not accept the fact they got turned away I would have to wonder how society actually functions not to mention that you would not have many happily married couples. I agree that there are a lot of poorly mannered and much worse out there but if you consider the population of america alone for one a week to be occuring then you're still looking at a massively small percentage, most likely less then 1% given some of those incidents may be repeats of the same person as well. I'm not saying it is not an issue nor am i saying you shouldn't make it well known that this happens but if you make statements without referance or proof people will just roll their eyes and ignore you because they find it too extreme to believe. Single articles and emotional outcries will often turn all but the already believing away. Data collection over time and referance to solid data is a better bet, you need to have clear referances and solid arguments or you tend to attract a lot of anger and people will just pick apart any small mistake they can find. (as some are trying with your hollywood post). While people will still attack you regardless, if you have a solid base of evidence then they can't refute your claim, they can only winge about you making it. Also a lot more people will be willing to believe you as you have clear proof.
To be honest this post is fine and I agree that there may be a social pattern but I fear you may be too close to the issue and may feel something is far more common then it truly is. Yes there are a lot of women getting attacked, heck in some cases there are even men getting abused/bashed, and both men and women are the attackers. It's not so much about gender attitudes then it is about teaching people how to treat each other in general. We need equality but that means teaching men that they do not own women, they can not force women and they are not 'different' from women as well as teaching women they are not that 'different' from men and that there is no excuse for aggresive behavour towards them. It is not so simple as seperating the genders though, men are sometimes controlled by women (far rarer but happens) and the roles can be reversed. The entire population needs to be entirely re-educated on the fact we are one people, not two genders, not 100 countries, not 5 colours, whatever, it's changing the base understanding to one of all not us and them. Unfortunately that goes agaisnt the most base human nature so we have a long way to go to get there.

Lindsey Weedston said...

Sorry it's taken me so long to reply. I don't mean that you should use African American, but you should say "black people." For white people, it doesn't matter, because we have privilege. We're not routinely dehumanized.

And I really don't care about proving things to men or anybody who has trouble believing that the murder of women is a systemic problem. I'm here to support women, to help give them a voice, to encourage them to discover their own anger and fight for their liberation. And please do not suggest that I am too close to an issue to speak on it. Of course I'm close to it. I'm a woman. Should all women not speak on these issues? That's absurd.

There IS a social pattern. There is no doubt of this. You don't need numbers to know this, you only need to pay attention. It may not be "common" but it's far too common, and it only happens to women. This is a fucking problem. Seriously, very few women attack men in this way. Far fewer than the number of men who do it. So don't try to suggest that this isn't about gender. And erasing gender and race is NOT the way to do things. Also, there are more than two genders. Of course I agree that we need to teach boys differently and teach them to respect women early, but to do that we need to focus on and be aware of the fact that women are attacked by men at ridiculously high rates. It is a gender issue.

Tribalmind said...

It is good to give women a voice and I certainly would not be against such. I was just concerned you were isolating one side of the conversation. I am pro female rights, though more often I am talking about transgender right so I'm a little outside these subjects. (So yes I know there are more then 2 genders, generally 5 is the accepted amount but I didn't really want to greate an entire seperate argument about that)

I must ask why you feel that eliminating the idea of race and gender is not the way to approach this? If people stopped referancing each other by these stigmas would it not make it far more less likely for a male to feel entitled? Or a female to feel intimidated? If we didn't have to set such boundries would it not reduce the chance for discrimination as the boundries would not exist to be used as a tool to discriminate? It is not the fact that women are seen as differnet to men by men and that is their excuse for treating them as they do?

It's great to give a voice to women and empower them but I just try to suggest against taking it to mean every action of a male is discrimination towards a female (which you're not but some may feel you do with the style you write you arguments). There are many men out there who are on your side of this argument and they may be your best chance for helping to stop those that aren't. I'm not saying that women can't do this but due to the attitude of the men that discriminate they likely will not listen to women long enough to ever understand so you need a few 'insiders' so to speak. To do this by all means speak out agaisnt discrimination but try not to paint all males with the same brush. Give women a voice but do not ignore that it is changing the male point of view that will help you the most here.

It's like in transgender arguments, transgenders can scream as much as they want about discrimination but unless they can get those outside the their groups to understand their points things will never change.

Anyway, if this is a social pattern then so be it, talking about it might help but if you want to help change things, throw proof in the face of your naysayers. You can say that you don't need figures to prove your point but not everyone is going to pay enough attention to realise this is happening. Like I said I have not heard that this is anywhere near as common as you claim and that may simply be that I have not paid enough attention to see it.
If you want to give women a voice give them a clear one, give them links to clear proof so anyone who does not pay enough attention can be shown with solid data. Otherwise anyone who doesn't pay enough attention will assume you are exagerating and will not be bothered to spend enough time to actually find out if you are correct. People are very lazy afterall. (Also people fight tooth and nail against anyone with a different point of view to their own as they are already so invested in their own, even if they know they are wrong)

The Adversary said...

Female entitlement is just as deadly.

I think it is better to define entitlement in terms of power and evil as abuse of power.
On average, men have the physical power, and women have the sexual power.
A man should not abuse his physical power to force a woman into having sex, but a woman shouldn't abuse her sexual power either.
But modern women seem to believe that they do not have to have any concern for the feelings of men whatsoever EVEN IF (and this is the important point)
they purposefully, intentfully, cause sexual arousal in a man. It's becoming so absurd that women can even do this out of spite, and not be considered bad people.
It's like in the old days when a woman got raped and nobody listened or took her seriously, only reversed.
(Anecdote : I've been the victim of sexual harassment on the work floor by women three times. I was completely powerless to do anything about it.
In the first two cases I had to leave because of bullying/mobbing as a consequence. The last time the woman left because I was experienced enough to withstand
the psychological warfare. As a result of this I have developed psychological and physical health issues.)
The standard refutation is : But it doesn't hurt men physically, like rape does women. And that's a lie, as shown by science.
I can present some scientific research that shows that male fruit flies live shorter when they do not mate and are exposed to female hormones.
The sexually frustrated male flies live way shorter. It's in dutch, you'll have to use google translate probably.

So denying a man sex seems to be actually detrimental to his health. So when a woman causes arousal out of spite or for reasons of manipulation etc.
she's actually performing the female equivalent of rape. And such bad women, because of the removal of male sexual entitlement in all of its shapes and forms,
become unlimitedly powerful. In just the same way as someone like Bill Cosby used to be. Only reversed.
So feminists, if you are really concerned with equality please get the facts straight about male physiology. Otherwise you end up being just as morally
despicable as the male rapist.